Curse

Rayne Nightfyre · Apr 06, 2006, 08:23 PM // 20:23

I understand the game is not out yet, and a lot of speculation and rumors have been going around. But my following argument is based soley on what I have seen in the FPE and in these new quests around Kryta. So first, I'd like to define the word "dilemma" for better understanding:

"a situation in which somebody must choose one of two or more unsatisfactory alternatives; a situation with unsatisfactory choices."--Encarta Dictionary: English(America)
rel. predicament, impasse, catch-22, tight spot.

This concept of warring factions really sucks in my opinion. Everyone I'm close to in this game feels this way also. Honestly, I hate both sides. The Kurzicks seem like a pale gothic version of the Puritans, and with the Luxon's Romantic/Transcendentalist vibe...both are very unappealing to me. They in part represent extreme opposites on the religious/political spectrum. I wish that A-Net had come up with different concepts for the two factions, many people cannot decide since neither side truly suits them.

What sucks ever more is the following. Our guild will be siding with the lovely Kurzicks, basically because it fits our guild's theme better, and the majority wanted to be part of a highly civilized and religious culture. After checking out a few of the Kurzick's towns, they're all dark and depressing. And so far, I have to say I like the look of the Luxons more than the Kurzicks (armor especially). So it's stupid second guessing myself simply because the armor appeals more to me on one side or another. Also, in siding with one faction, you will miss the content that the other side has to offer(such as armor skins). Yes, you can switch, but if you've spent your time and gold into building your guild around one side, switching to the other will be starting at ground zero.

So basically it seems that the game will force us to embrace one side in this pointless war based on hatred alone, whether we like it or not. It also seems that both sides fight each other for no reason other than the fact they hate each other. They probably have long forgotten why they started fighting in the first place, blinded by hatred. The Kurzicks say the Luxons are filthy and evil, and the Luxons say the Kurzicks are filthy and evil. So us we as players are forced to join in this fight, whether or not we feel it is just. Notice this screen:

I wish it was possible to play the game while saying "This is your war, not mine." But to access any content, you can't go around choosing that option with every NPC quest-giver.

So our point is that it is below us as players to be involved in a hatred-fed fued, and that it seems unfair that in choosing a faction, you miss out on whatever the other side has to offer. I know we can't expect ArenaNet to go and change it so that both the Luxons and Kurzicks are in perfect harmony, but we feel the need to express the dilemma we're facing. Thank you for considering this.

Akhilleus · Apr 06, 2006, 08:29 PM // 20:29

pfft, luxon propaganda to bring about peace...GO KURZIK!!!

in all seriousness, it would be nice to have a third side for mediation; like an unbiased traders union that sells weapons to both sides, but stays out of the fight, or something of the sort.

Rayne Nightfyre · Apr 06, 2006, 08:31 PM // 20:31

I agree, some sort of side that doesn't force you to scream "Die Luxons!!!11!"
A neutral trade union is an excellent idea. Then again...how about we turn against both sides, and drive them back to Cantha?

At least there's a degree of peace in Tyria, where the whole continent isn't dominated by prejudice and hatred (except my deep hatred for Tengu/Avicara). So I'll be hanging out in Tyria often after Factions comes out.

Edit: I have to leave for work now, so I apologize for not being able to continue this discussion for now. But I'll check back the next chance I get.

Stormfall · Apr 06, 2006, 08:44 PM // 20:44

I think I've read in many posts around the GW Guru board that you're not locked down when you pick a faction, so it's possible to jump between the two sides and experience the content offered by both. I don't know how viable "faction-hopping" is, maybe you'd have to devote yourself to one for a long while before jumping the fence to really get anywhere, but from what we've seen so far it is possible.

As to the two sides being equally undesirable, I kind of find that refreshing (just in my opinion). The heroic fantasy genre is already full of polar "good vs. evil", so I think it's nice that ArenaNet decided to pit two factions who simply butter different sides of their bread (1000 points to whoever catches that reference first

) against each other. It's a lot closer to how things work in the real world, where who's right and who's wrong is often merely subjective.

I can see what you mean, though. While I like that the faction war isn't all black-and-white, I don't find either the Kurzicks or the Luxons to be people I'd like to be associated with. Those sick freaks at Anet really enjoy watching their players make tough choices, don't they?

And an actual catalyst for this war might be nice, too; the "neither side remembers why they're fighting" angle has been used to death by now.

twicky_kid · Apr 06, 2006, 08:49 PM // 20:49

It was explained that you can jump from one side to the other eventually it will be harder to switch sides.

That will allow you to change when you want but it will take some time to switch.

MSecorsky · Apr 06, 2006, 09:05 PM // 21:05

Typical Kurzick fear of commitment, if you ask me. The OP is likely a Kurzick spy trying to sap the will of the Luxon people with this flower progaganda.

Seriously, without seeing where the story takes us (we know the sides have to unite against a common foe) it's a bit premature to hate because of the hate.

pixel.summoner · Apr 06, 2006, 09:26 PM // 21:26

Well said both posts above. twicky and MSecorsky

Rhedd · Apr 06, 2006, 09:29 PM // 21:29

Looks to me, from what I've seen so far, like there IS a neutral, mediating "side": The inhabitants of the Imperial City (including an Emperor, I assume) want to unite both the Luxons and the Kurzicks so Shiro can be defeated once and for all.

Now, I'm sure there's no way to actually ALLY with the Imperials, but still, I expect the city will provide some neutral merchants, territory, and such, for those who might not want to get as deeply involved in this "pointless" war which was started by those mindless Luxons who only know how to destroy what others create.

...

Sorry. I got a little carried away there. ^_^

Anyway, I noticed, for instance, that all the new PvP armors come in three flavors; Luxon, Kurzick, and Imperial.

Of course, I could just be completely wrong about everything. I won't know until the end of the month.

Cyril Aspect · Apr 06, 2006, 09:37 PM // 21:37

Yep the city side is a third faction thoughwhether we can join them seems to be up in the air. those are apparently the traders we see in LA and seem th emost rational of the lot.

so again just to second the above poster, I don't know about armors but at least lore wise there is one alternative.

Those crazy city dwellers! Kurzicks FTW

Rayne Nightfyre · Apr 06, 2006, 10:05 PM // 22:05

I have a chance to get on briefly here, so I'll try to make sense of what has been said. First off...

Quote:

Originally Posted by MSecorsky

Typical Kurzick fear of commitment, if you ask me. The OP is likely a Kurzick spy trying to sap the will of the Luxon people with this flower progaganda.

Seriously, without seeing where the story takes us (we know the sides have to unite against a common foe) it's a bit premature to hate because of the hate.

Gee, thanks...I'll try to take that as a joke...

And for the record, I by no means identify myself with either side, which includes the Kurzicks, just yet. My sole point is that I do not like the fact that we are forced to make a decision, one in which neither outcome is desirable (mirroring the definition explained earlier). If we do end up siding with the Kurzicks, it's not like I condone everything they're about, or that I'm happy with our decision. I intended this discussion to be from a standpoint of unbiased logic, and possibly to help me in making a final decision for our guild. So no, I'm no spy...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stormfall

I can see what you mean, though. While I like that the faction war isn't all black-and-white, I don't find either the Kurzicks or the Luxons to be people I'd like to be associated with. Those sick freaks at Anet really enjoy watching their players make tough choices, don't they?

That pretty much sums up my feelings, very well said Stormfall.

You all have valid points, and we shall indeed see how the general feel of gameplay is affected by the two factions.

SylverDragon · Apr 07, 2006, 12:11 AM // 00:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rhedd

Looks to me, from what I've seen so far, like there IS a neutral, mediating "side": The inhabitants of the Imperial City (including an Emperor, I assume) want to unite both the Luxons and the Kurzicks so Shiro can be defeated once and for all.

Yes, these are the Canthans - members of the third nation on the continent of Cantha. They regard the Kurzicks and the Luxons as vassal states.

Quote:

Now, I'm sure there's no way to actually ALLY with the Imperials,

From what I saw in the FPE, our chars were the Imperials, sent out to persuade one or the other side to join the fight. If we had been Kurzicks or Luxons, we would never have been allowed into both capitals.

This doesn't help the problem though, since it seems we will have to join one side or the other to persuade them to join the fight against Shiro. I don't see (so far) any way to go through the PvE plot and stay neutral.

Diablo™ · Apr 07, 2006, 12:14 AM // 00:14

When confounded by poor choices, choose the lesser of two evils.

Guardian of the Light · Apr 07, 2006, 01:13 AM // 01:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diablo™

When confounded by poor choices, choose the lesser of two evils.

Hmmm

Options

Kill all Luxons in settlement

Kill all Kurzicks in settlement.

Hmmmm lesser would be......

Diablo™ · Apr 07, 2006, 01:32 AM // 01:32

pssh, i cant answer everything. its up to you guys.

LifeInfusion · Apr 07, 2006, 04:25 AM // 04:25

Buy a second copy of guild wars Factions. Then buy a second copy of Guild Wars Prophecies. There you go, both factions...

*OR just decide by which experience you enjoy more. For me it was the Luxons, because I cannot really play in dark areas when it is dim in the area my computer is (because there is no light directly overhead, it is offset by about 7 feet on the ceiling and it is a chandelier type of lamp).

gou · Apr 07, 2006, 05:07 AM // 05:07

as previously touched upon, your characters do remain largely neutral in the storyline, the little we did see of it in the fpe made it obvious we are there to gradually reunite the kurzick and luxon factions to combat the common threat of the afflicted etc.

The only "side-picking" invovled is with regard to the pvp element of the new dynamic battle field in factions, even some of those are less about killing the opposing faction and more about accomplishing your tasks (jade quarry et al) and as such there is no real reason to side with either unless you want to play these specifically and even then you dont have to roleplay it!

Your character can "belong" to the opposing faction of your guild with little problem, just spend your faction on the items and upgrades not on guild standing.

Rhedd · Apr 07, 2006, 06:46 AM // 06:46

So, at the risk of sounding rude, I have to ask; Is this problem a matter of the stereotypical gamer-demographic's attitude that groups and authority are to be avoided at all costs, or is it you wanting to be handed a nice, clean, black-and-white choice with an obvious answer, or is it an actual roleplaying, in-character conundrum?

Frankly, the first two would just be equally sad. Only in cartoons are things that clear-cut, and being a rabid loner is just so... unattractive... To adults, at least.

So, I'm going to assume your problem is the third; In-character, you don't see any reason to fight for either side.

Okay. Why the heck should you?

No, seriously, you've been given no reason to like or hate either side... YET.

For me, it was easy. I have a character that I've known was half-Canthan since I first heard about Canthans, and when I played the FPE, it was like going home after a long time. I knew where she'd grown up the moment I saw it, and so I know what side she's on.

If I didn't have such a convenient backstory, though, I'd be in exactly the same position as you. I don't know these people. I haven't had the opportunity yet. I'm sure as heck not going to go to war for or against people I don't even know. I don't think the difference in leather overcoats versus patchwork pants is enough of a reason to commit genocide.

Don't worry, though. Factions starts you off in the Imperial City, and it looks HUGE. My guess is you'll have ample opportunity to see things about both sides. Sooner or later, something is sure to strike you as sympathetic or unbearable. At least, that's what the developers are hoping, I'm sure.

Until then, roleplay your character and do what you'd do, and if that means being neutral, then bide your time.

Or... if you're just a ronin-super-leet-lone-wolf-badass who was picked on in school and so doesn't want to join a group, get a grip and try to have fun for once. ^_^

Lady Lozza · Apr 07, 2006, 07:07 AM // 07:07

Rayne, I'm in the opposite position. I want to go Kurzick, but it looks like my guild will be going Luxon. Since I've already got 10,000 Kurzick factions I did the Luxon quest on my characters.

For me the Kurzicks are a highly cultural society. They have an appreciation of music and art, and the 15k armour for the mesmers would look lovely on Luned.
IMO the Luxons seem more primative and barbaric, and I'm not much of a fan of the beach anyway

I love forests though, and the gothic architecture is lovely and reminds me of when I was living in Spain.

I LIKE the idea of choosing sides, but what I don't like is the idea that our ALLIANCE will be able to choose the side with ZERO input from its members. Oh and having only ONE armour (not confirmed) when you have been placed in a side - eek - I seriously would quit my guild if I was stuck with Luxon armour for my mesmer.

Rhedd, I know that Luned is really the illegitmate daughter of a Kurzick noble kidnapped and taken to Ascalon to grow up all alone till her mesmerising powers were found, I knew that the moment I saw the 15k Kurzick armour

burai · Apr 07, 2006, 08:04 AM // 08:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by twicky_kid

It was explained that you can jump from one side to the other eventually it will be harder to switch sides.

That will allow you to change when you want but it will take some time to switch.

Will it be hard to switch? I'm not disagreeing with you, I'm just not aware that it would be.

I find the whole faction concept fascinating. Even though it's just a game (albeit a damn fine game), some people are already becoming quite passionate about which side they will align with.

Oh! and Luxons rule all

EF2NYD · Apr 07, 2006, 08:10 AM // 08:10

Wouldn't it be interesting if you acquired a feature later in the game that "united" both sides and thereafter be able to use either faction's crafters and merchants.